Dagmara Asbreuk (00:00.832)
What is coaching and why embracing coaching in your leadership is a game changer for leading transformational change, evolving your team to the next level and above all, elevating your impact and effectiveness as a leader. And how do you embrace coaching in your leadership? Those are questions I explored with my guest, Alana Marsh, who is a founder of Vicoach Academy that specializes in bringing coaching to leaders and coaches.
Alana is also a leadership coach and trainer and I happen to know her very well because she is the person that introduced me to this transformative world of coaching and BCoach Academy has been my very first stepping stone into the world of coaching that has truly transformed my leadership and life. So tune into this conversation as we are going to unpack this powerful skill and mindset of coaching and help you understand how you can embrace coaching in your leadership.
So let's start it, Alera. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you very much, Dagmara. And it's, I'm very honored and I'm very touched by your introduction. happy, happy to be here. Thank you. How did you come to coaching? What's that really lead you? Because I know there is a story. Well, I think I came across coaching.
25 years ago, so when I was working in HR in a big international company as a person who was responsible for the people development, talent management and leadership development. Well, of course, coaching began to enter, you know, the Russian market because this is where I used to work back then. And everybody who left people themselves and who were responsible for leadership development needed to introduce themselves to this.
you know, new medical, but a little bit strange for us back then way of leading, you said. I think it took me probably two, three years to fully get into the, you know, the understanding of all the potential that coaching can bring into the world of coaching, into the world of leadership and people development. But as soon as I started developing the skill myself, I guess, and
Dagmara Asbreuk (02:21.736)
noticing the impact of it and the people I was working with, people I was leading, my peers, et cetera. It just completely transformed my relationship with others and actually my relationship with myself as well. yeah, and so now I've been together alongside with the Big Coach Academy. So I continue working, of course, as an executive and leadership coach, and I work with leaders from a multiple
industries and organizations and geographical location. Yeah, that's true. That's good. And maybe just you want to elaborate off when, what is really BeCoach doing before we dive as well? We mentioned that name of your company, but who are the people that you're coaching or helping to learn that magical skill apart from of course, coaching leaders? Yeah, of course. So our program is accredited by International Coaching Federation. So it's a globally recognized kind of seal of quality.
that we bring into our program and approaches when we work with students. So we train leaders and we train coaches. Yeah, and that's great because basically, as you said, it's such a needed skill. And I remember also when I was joining that program in the early days, right, in the first rounds, and I know it grew.
I remember that I was also coming with the first intention since I was that time, also in corporate worlds, to be a better leader. Right. And I've been dealing with some challenges that time as well as a leader. So I remember that that was really such a transformative journey. Plus, yeah, from their passion to an interest to become a certified coach and, and leaning to that profession actually grew. the curiosity, my curiosity goes, you mentioned you spent like this two, three years.
time before you kind of decided to dedicate yourself to that profession. So what did you discover in this two to three years time when you were getting into coaching and that was obviously a journey for you as well? I was not very different from many people these days who are first thinking that coaching is just a way of having a conversation with another human being, helping them, I don't know, to learn or to achieve their goals.
Dagmara Asbreuk (04:39.426)
And I guess that was my initial perception of what coaching is. And of course we cannot disregard this bit. Of course it is partially what coaching is, but what I began to recognize, and this is actually also what lies as a, like a fundamental aspect of the Be Coach philosophy is that the coaching is not just a skill. It's not just a.
I don't know, way of leading people, as we say, it's a way of being when approaching different challenges, so moving forward towards my goal, or again, connecting to other people, communicating to other people, being with them, just as well as being with myself. And so the recognition of that impact on the personality, on the core of who I am,
made, first of all, significant kind of a gas of a shift in my personal values. Again, how I want to be in this world and how I want to be with other people and what kind of impact I want to create. and with the realization of that depth of what coaching can bring, I realized that I, that's, that is what I want to do in life. yeah.
Cool. So I'm hearing these two things, right? The first is it's an enabler for powerful conversation, meaningful conversation and this building this relationship with people and helping others to grow to think and all this nice stuff that coaching does, not provoking questions, right? We'll back to that. And the second thing is what's...
Yeah, it resonates very much. So with my beginning is this discovery that it's about yourself actually. How do you can lead yourself? Who are you actually at the core as a human being? And I remember also for me that there was this discovery of being resourceful on so many levels and through coaching, opening this box, this toolbox of various resources, right? On how can we tap to this different potential of selves, which is actually
Dagmara Asbreuk (06:53.878)
The most important part of coaching. it's actually in both directions. And as you say, like what you said, it's nice. summarize about it's a way of being as well. It's a way of, it's, it's, it's more than just a skill, right? So why is that important for leaders? People want to be treated, you know, with respect and, they want to have a certain level of.
autonomy when it comes to them deciding, you know, how to solve the problem or how to move forward. They want to feel that this is a place where they belong. They kind of, the sense that I'm in this place and I learn and I grow and I know that my manager respect me or my leader respect me by caring of what I actually think.
How can I actually contribute? So my opinion matters. My view matters. I matter. And I think for people it becomes more and more important. And therefore, when people ask questions with a true presence, over lead and true curiosity around, know, who this individual in the front of me, what they are thinking.
What are their concerns? What drives them? What motivates them? Creates a totally different sense of, you know, how I am in this workplace with this leader, comparing with somebody who would say, I don't care what you're saying, just go and do what I say. Right? Maybe again, that's a little bit kind of harsh and goes too far. And you know, why?
one side of the spectrum and another side of a spectrum, just to make a point. And, so I believe that this is becoming, this approach is now much more valued in the organizations, especially amongst the young, younger people, and those who are kind of now growing and, and opening themselves up to the, to the business world.
Dagmara Asbreuk (09:17.038)
Plus, you know, as we are looking into the consideration, kind of at the pace of change, where you know, you're working with change quite a lot and you're helping leaders to thrive through change. You know, this approach of like, I'm a leader, I've been on that path, I'm an expert, I know, so therefore just listen to me. Well, it doesn't work in so many circumstances anymore because everything is changing.
so incredibly rapidly. So we need to find more creative ways to, you know, just to solve the challenges and move forward towards our goals. And therefore leaders need to use different approaches. So what I'm hearing is this fundamental need to shift the way we lead, which coaching enables, because it brings back to how we as leaders make others feel, how do we help them to
stay motivated or even understand themselves, reach the potential develop. And there is much more profound way to do it through a coaching approach or coaching in leadership rather than hear a hicker, which is on an extreme side, of course, hear a hicker way of management, telling people what to do and considering yourself as an expert, right? So that's what I'm sensing what you're hearing. And I think when I'm hearing you actually, it's a good moment to unpack maybe for listeners.
For us, obvious thing, but I think for still so many not. What really is coaching before we tap into those two nice areas you mentioned of, you know, impact on others as well as impact on yourself. So let's unpack it, Elena. What would you say coaching is and what are their biases that people have with coaching, what they think the coaching is, which we know coaching is not. Yeah, that's, that is true. And I mean, like, you know, I
I could just give a definition of coaching by international coaching duration. So putting in our normal words. let me give you an example or like a little story. So I guess that happened maybe 25 years ago. So I was working in the corporate world back then and I was invited to a regional conference which took place in Istanbul and a coaching training, the basic coaching training.
Dagmara Asbreuk (11:44.066)
was a part of it. our trainers presented an issue. So there was a person who was kind of a playing the role play. So she had an issue and we all supposed to coach her how to find her way through that challenge. And I felt so incredibly frustrated because I knew solution. I thought I knew exactly what she needs to do. And I was asking my trainers, but
What questions can I ask to her to make her realize that this is exactly what she needs to do? And so I didn't really grab that point is that yes, it is about asking questions, but it's not with the purpose of manipulate or drive an individual towards the solution, which you believe is the right.
And I guess this is where often like when I, when I work with leaders these days and we begin a conversation around coaching. So what I hear is that, I coach my people. I'm good at it. And when we begin, as you said, unpacking it. So what, what appears to be the case is that people understand by coaching everything, starting from instructing, finishing.
by sharing their expertise. And that's right. And occasionally it does happen that it is about asking questions, they say, but when we start again talking about what kind of questions are asked, so very often again, those are the questions which lead the person towards a specific solution that the leader has in mind.
So therefore, I'm trying to sum it up and say what actually coaching is.
Dagmara Asbreuk (13:42.848)
It is, yes, it is a conversation, but what is important in that conversation and what is, I believe, the biggest challenge for the leader is to have that coaching mindset, which helps them to basically realize that their knowing and their expertise does not matter in this conversation.
So, and that's a huge stretch and challenge for the leaders to actually park their knowledge and expertise aside and to put their attention to the individual in the front of them and to become curious about what they know. know, and this is where the nature of questions is coming from, not trying to lead them towards your solution, but the nature of questions coming from, you know, what stops you?
What is the challenge for you? What ideas do you have? What can prevent you from moving forward? What resources would be best for you to apply here? So those are really like this open and as we say, coaching and exploratory base, but kind of exploratory type of questions, which do provoke the thinking of an individual to search and to understand first of all, their own.
kind of the nature, the core of the challenge. And then to begin to think and search for the solutions, which applicable for that particular challenge, which they are tapping on covering in that conversation. I'm just, you know, absorbing all of what you were saying because there's so much wisdom there. So let's unpack it one by one.
So I think one of the things it's obvious that coaching is not telling training, mentoring that we kind of clarified, which do people do use or apply when they mean coaching is usually considered as training. I'm coaching my people, I'm training my people. So it's definitely not that. What Augustine you nicely highlighted is it's about the conversation that is focused.
Dagmara Asbreuk (15:57.998)
on helping the other person to find a solution for their challenge that they are facing. This is what reminds me of the recent session I had with leaders. It requires from leaders a mindset shift. And I can totally resonate with it because I was, as a leader, applying coaching, being in questions and mindset. So I faced those challenges. Challenges are letting go and challenging goes off.
role in your mind, first of all, seeing yourself not as an expert, but as a partner, which is helping you then as a leader in that context to naturally focus questions, not as you mentioned, to manipulate so that the other person gets to the solution that you want to hear, rather...
to be open, curious, empathic and explore together and let go of what the solution is and rather focus on how do you unleash that creativity and thinking out of the box in another person, which automatically leads the other person to obviously be more resourceful, more skillful in the next challenge they encounter, right? So that's this wonderful transformative aspect of coaching through a conversation like that, right? Absolutely.
I'm also like, you know, sometimes like using this metaphor, is for leader to stop being the best player on the field. It's like if you are a football player, you know, you know, you want to be a best player and you want to know you kind of, that's not about you being a best player anymore. It's letting other people learn how they can play at their best. Absolutely.
Actually, reminds me, literally, recently I had the foundation, we can call it a training workshop around bringing skills to leaders here in Dubai. And that was exactly what you talk about, this nice comparison to the sports team. Because just when we think about football as an example, as a sports team, what's the role of the coach? The coach is not playing on the field.
Dagmara Asbreuk (18:10.956)
His role is different, right? Is to enable them to play at their best together. So if as a leader can embrace that kind of persona or role first in the minds, that's already a game changer for how you're going to approach, well, delegation, how you're going to approach any conversation with your people, how you're going to, what kind of questions you're going to use.
That's right. But it's not easy. I totally, you know, I totally got it. And I've been there and I'm pretty sure Doug Murray, you've been there as well. When you started incorporating coaching into your leadership style, because we, you know, we, we used to think that this is the way to create value, right? That when we are sharing again, what we know and when we help people buy
instructing them or advising them or suggesting we feel good because we believe that this is the main thing we can create that value. And in our recent coaching cohort at the Coach Academy, we have one student who is a leader in learning coaching. And in his first practice round of coaching, he mentioned that
So we noticed first that most of his questions were kind of linked to his experience and expertise and there were lots of sharing of that. And he admitted, he said, I don't know how else I can bring value if I don't have anything to contribute of my own into the conversation. So this is where this paradigm shift needs to happen. Right? So that you need to, there is a great value in you.
holding the space for another person to think independently and think for themselves. Right. And listen actively. I'll just go back to that because we are nicely unpacking the elements of coaching conversation. And yeah, it again reminds me what was just recently on the discussion. I totally see that. And I do remember that this, this conflict in there and not internal conflict, like, okay.
Dagmara Asbreuk (20:21.526)
Where is that? Where, how do I add value? Because all the leaders wants to add value, right? And I think what helped me to know that I asked myself, but also to help others to see the different perspectives, seeing that actually coaching is the most effective for performance in the organization, as well as of course require you as a leader to be in most sophisticated maturity of your own self leadership, because it's requiring you to master your emotions, master your mind, all of that. And
There is a place for mentoring. There is a place for training. There is a place in leadership for all of that. You can wear different hats, whatever. And at the same time, coaching is the most powerful if you want to really unleash the potential in your organization. And it's straightforward to the business, a growth and a business performance because like Steve Jobs says, when you...
When you hire the people that are experts, you don't want to tell them what to do. You want to tell that they tell you what to do. So that is where coaching is anchored. Yeah. How do you do that? By applying that, right? So it reminds me also.
What else? What else is important?
Dagmara Asbreuk (21:32.856)
Well, there are a bunch of coaching techniques and I mean, many of them you have mentioned that there's a presence of curiosity. Okay. It's a big, big component. There is like an element of empathy, of course, because coaching is something, this is when I was talking about the, you know, the way of being with other people. And it is about kind of a...
You know, that empathy that the leader or a coach brings into the space by recognizing the challenge that the person brings to the conversation might not seem as a challenge to you at all, because you do have all your knowledge and experience, but they do struggle. It is a challenge for them.
And to bring that empathy, giving them that space of really listening non -judgmentally without having your agenda in mind in terms of this is right or wrong, this is good or bad. It is really meeting the person with a complete again respect is that any, any idea, any opinion or thought is worth verbalizing and has
the right to be in this coaching space, which actually linked very neatly to developing an ability for the individual, for the person, the coachee to think creatively. So when they know that they're not going to be judged in this conversation, that when they are sharing their thoughts or their opinion or their views, the leader will not be like listening like, you know.
with that face expression so that everything has rights to be. So therefore they're free to brainstorm. They are allowed to make mistakes because again, this is a coaching principle is that we are learning from mistakes. This is that growth mindset which comes alongside with coaching, right? And you know that at the Coach Academy we love mistakes, we celebrate mistakes, we invite mistakes because this is the only way we can learn.
Dagmara Asbreuk (23:52.386)
And this is the only kind of a sign that we are going out of our comfort zone and we are growing and developing and trying something new. So what else? Yeah. So what I'm hearing, of course, is psychological safety through that. bringing that safety so people can explore, take risks and maybe even make mistakes. So that's a fundamental in this conversation. mentioned.
the aspect of empathic and nonjudgmental listening, which is the highest level of listening as well, let's that's another discussion. What listening actively is about, Questions, we already covered. And I think the focus on what is the intention in this conversation? Maybe that's to wrap up, right? Because we mentioned a little bit at the beginning that the focus is not, I am going to give you a solution.
but I'm going to help you to find the best solution. That's the bias of the higher you go in a rank as a leader or the more experienced you are as an expert, you think you know everything, right? But there is so much things that you don't know that you don't know. What would you say on that one, Yeah, absolutely. So in terms of intentionality, I think it's also quite, there are a lot in there.
So first of all, we are developing the independent thinking of individuals, of people. are kind of helping them to learn of how to be resourceful, how to solve challenges themselves, ultimately creates maybe not in a short term, but on a slightly long run, but it does create more opportunities for a leader at the end of the game.
to spend more time on strategic thinking rather than on constantly solving problems of other people in the team. So that's one intention, to help them to grow and to develop to think independently. The second one is again to encourage them to take responsibility and accountability for those actions, choices and decisions that they are making. And obviously when the leader says, go there and do this,
Dagmara Asbreuk (26:15.574)
It's faster, right? But if there is internal... Yeah, exactly. Faster to say, that's true. Faster to say doesn't mean there will be faster results. Yeah, and if there is a certain internal disannounce between, you know, the challenges such and how to approach the challenge and the suggestion that they lead it on.
then obviously the action will either not be taking or with the taking halfway or whatever else. But if a leader facilitates that, you know, search for options by asking, so based on the resources you have, what can you do? You know, who else can help you? What can first step will be? When are you intended to take that first step? What potential obstacles? What strategies you might have to address those obstacles?
So how will I know that you are progressing, for instance, so when would be the best time for you and how would you like to get back to me with, I don't know, celebration or we have success? So there is a very clear commitment from an individual so that this is what they're going to do. This is when they're going to do it by, and this is how and when, if needed, they will, I don't know, report back again, if needed.
In many cases, maybe there is no even need for that. but there is a much clearer commitment and accountability for the person to take those actions, which they, you know, came up with themselves and, they are owning it. There is a greater sense of ownership on that. of course, then, you know, that, that intention, which may be not so direct, but which comes as a, as a result of
a leader embracing coaching. it's obviously that's a great motivation. That's a great engagement of the employees. That's a greater performance because they learn and they grow and they feel that they are again treated with respect and that they matter. Their opinions are matter in this workplace. So organizationally there is a huge kind of... Yeah. So much value when you're listing that up. And so it's like this...
Dagmara Asbreuk (28:36.78)
When I apply coaching, am actually through that developing people, developing them to be more independent in their job as well as more creative and all of that so that I can gain time for what is actually needed for me and where I want to spend time, which is strategic thinking and all the strategic aspects of leading a team organization where I can add value because I'm giving space for others to work on other things.
Then the second, what you mentioned is this very important ingredient that I think every leader dream of and wants to is ownership, accountability, ownership, right? So I want people to take responsibility or be accountable, feel like this ownership, okay, this is my task, this is my goal, this is my project and I'm owning it, right? And that's what I'm going for. And this is every leader wants it.
And the third I think you mentioned is also of course the whole dynamic, right? The motivation and how people feel things to that. They feel valued, they feel heard, they feel respected, they feel nourished, they feel developed, all of that. And of course, all through a performance. So now comes the magic question.
Maybe you anticipate, I don't know. Why do you think so many leaders still don't apply? Well, let's admit that coaching is still relatively new approach in leadership. And, you know, of course we can look at their kind of a negative aspect of why it's still not happening. But I would, you know, also turn and see how far we actually moved already.
Again, I said, don't know, a of decades ago, you know, I remember when I did my coaching course, was like a couple of decades ago, and my trainer said that she got her first training in coaching and she gave an advert in the newspaper in the UK. Okay, so I'm offering a coaching service and very soon,
Dagmara Asbreuk (30:44.408)
they now should receive the call and somebody said, so we want to hire a coach. And she's like, wow, great. I said, yes, so we need to move from Yorkshire to Derbyshire. So we need a coach for this. Sorry, I'm not providing a transportation. Coaching is a different thing.
Yeah, it was around 20 years ago, think. exactly. And where are we today? mean, you know, maybe there are still a lot of misconception around what coaching is, but basically the word coaching is certainly, know, nobody's messing it up, at least with the form of transportation anymore. And when we talk about leadership and coaching, it doesn't...
sound so alien to the majority of the leaders. So that is something to celebrate and acknowledge as a progress, believe. And more and more again, if the coaching was more for executives and CET levels, level leaders and organizations, now it is cascading down all the way through to...
I don't know, again, shop floor supervisors basically, and even individual contributors in many organizations as well, which is a huge, huge step forward and progress in the development of coaching in business. I think that is fantastic. And then, again, this is a generational beat, I think, because when coaching came, most of the leaders...
you know, they were at the age and they were practicing very different style of leadership, okay, more direct and more commanding. And it's not so easy for them, of course, to kind of retrain themselves. It does take time. And of course, now the more younger generation of people are coming to the leadership positions. So they are more open to coaching, they are more keen to
Dagmara Asbreuk (32:59.726)
learn how to do it and they're more flexible in their leadership style as well. So I think in the next several years, we will see even more significant jump towards leaders becoming better and better. Yeah, I agree with you. And I liked the way you answered the question, starting with a positive conscious choice, right?
example of that, right? Let's acknowledge first Maria. love that actually. Let's take first as a leader, right? Individual human being would like to develop coaching skills, immerse him or herself into that journey. What would you say is the best starting point for people that would like to start? Yeah, great question.
Great question. And I think, you know, again, that many people think that, I need to just need to learn how to ask the right questions. they said, the questions, the questions then come naturally as a by -product of a conscious, mindful presence of a leader in those conversations. Okay. And I believe that the first step is actually when you are engaged into a conversation.
with a member of a team, with a coachee. First thing is to really build that self -awareness and to recognize when there is an urge to suggest, to advise, to instruct, to share your experience, any of that.
So that's a first and don't even try to fight with it. Don't try to change it. So that's a very little baby step, just recognizing and acknowledging that this is what is happening. And then when you really became noticing those moments, noticing then you are about to open your mouth to, you know, with an ex -suggestion or advice or whatsoever.
Dagmara Asbreuk (35:09.752)
Then that would be okay. So, but I know what I know. Do I know what they know? So then it is achieved to the curiosity. Okay. So, and then there is a time and space for actually, what do you think? Okay. What have you tried to create? You know, what, what, what possible ideas again, what resource, and then there is a, then there is a coaching techniques that come into place.
they will be able to commonplace those coaching techniques. So that's this internal work of a leader of recognizing the urge and posing their knowledge on the bookshelf of their mind. I know that's fine. Good, good boy, good girl. And I'm great expert. know that, but it's not about me now. So, so true. And presence, right?
magical element into coaching, catching yourselves, getting more aware what's happening in my body and catching yourself and reverting from saying to questioning. What helped me in the beginning, I must say, and sometimes when I feel that my mind is not in a place that I want to be, you know, ultimate presence in my coaching with somebody else, it's intention setting as well. Before the conversation, just word.
presence can bring so much, right? My intention in this conversation is just be present, not just get something out of the other person. That again is little technique to shift the focus, which is then, as you nicely mentioned, going to intuitively guide you with questions to ask. And it's true, people really want to have the manuscripts of questions, which has its place because it's gold also to know what questions are more powerful than the others. And yeah, I can see.
a great reminder to, to, starts with, with the awareness first on what's going on in Dubai. And that brings me to another question. So, you know, when I think about ability to coach as a leader and slash be a powerful leader, this ability to manage your inner world is not only for your conversation in a coaching way, but for everything else in order to be present in order to manage.
Dagmara Asbreuk (37:33.024)
also these triggers coming up, the urge, as you mentioned, this is a mind and emotion management. What else is this important part and maybe it was yours on a journey to be able to be a great coach? Well, you know, if I kind of a breach the skills or elements of coaching, which are taught in coaching schools and which like active listening is a
one of the core coaching competencies, right? And again, it just might sound like, what does it mean to listen actively? Just nod your head and kind of, know, and then ask the next question. Again, there are so much more in that listening aspect. And I guess that that listening aspect of coaching, which I, of course, brought them into the relationship with my family, you know, with my friends.
It is just, this is what I just realized that it is, there are so few people who really listens and there are so many who loves talking. And then when you suddenly, you know, give an opportunity to another human being to fully express themselves again, without that judgment, just simply being with them and holding that space for them, just letting them to.
to speak, the connection, the people, people just open up to you. You know, the connection grows tremendously. There are many parents in our program actually who then, you know, who did not even think that their coaching can help them in relationship with their children. They came from totally different purposes to the coaching program, but they begin to realize of how that...
You know, parking that knowing is helpful. How just to listen and to hold the place for the teenage son or daughter just transforms the relationship between them. Yeah. So that's very difficult to underestimate value of very good empathetic deep listening and holding this place for the person to express themselves. This is one of takeaway exactly this from.
Dagmara Asbreuk (39:55.296)
where I was referring to this first workshops, know, first and counter. And we did practice listening and presence. And this is where people think, I'm a good listener. But when you unpack this five stages of five different levels, there are so many different models, but it goes about when you, you up and understand the empathic deep listening and you practice it, just listening, you just start to understand the transformative power. So maybe that's another thing for listeners to think of.
When you are, another intention to say, right? The one is to manage your trigger and what comes to you, but another is just listen for at least three minutes and then stretch it longer and see what happens in order to be better in being present and in really listening profoundly. What helped me a lot is really understanding myself deeper, understanding the power of mind, understanding all.
beliefs and limiting beliefs, of that understanding and also shifting and learning how you can actually manage mind and emotions because they are so interconnected. So I consider that that's so important part along the journey that help you, course, to be a coaching type of leader, modern type of leader, as we are kind of defining in this conversation.
But also, of course, it helps you, as you said, in any other area of life, because it helps you in your relationship, it helps you in your wellbeing, and it helps you to be an effective leader. So, maybe one of the last questions, because we unpack what an individual can do. What would you recommend even an organization is looking for bringing coaching skills into the organization, into leadership, first of all?
What would you say or recommend to HR, let me say, who is usually the first partner thinking about it, where to go in terms of looking for people to help? Well, guess that like, know, if it's not yet in agenda of HR to build a coaching culture in the organization, that I, my, my belief is that it must become a priority and rather sooner than later.
Dagmara Asbreuk (42:11.236)
if you really want to have an engaged people, people who grow or learn and their organization to succeed. so creating a coaching culture. And again, it's not necessarily where a leader has, formal coaching session or coaching conversation. It is really how bringing that coaching philosophy in the element in the interaction.
between people, you know, with each other on the level of employee to employee, mean, know, peer to peer, as well as a leader to member of the team. And the best way, well, I guess, again, find a reliable partner who has an experience in coaching, who has an experience in working.
with leaders who has an experience in training leaders and facilitating leadership growth. Because again, my belief is that you can deliver, can conduct the training and then in a couple of days or a week or two weeks, because it's a habit to develop. the process of creating the culture needs to be systematic and to develop the sustainable results. really consider.
a journey or a program that would help those new skills and habits to cement. Because the mindset does take time to develop a skill maybe, not that maybe, when it comes to coaching, we realize it already through our conversation, maybe listeners did pick that idea up, that everything starts from that mindset shape. Yeah, so it does take.
an effort and time to, and with the support of a professional partner that will be certainly much more. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think on, would just add the thing, looking at the coaching industry, I would add one more thing, as you already mentioned, like B -coach is certified on it. We are both certified on it. It goes about also looking at where is this coach and coaching coming from because
Dagmara Asbreuk (44:22.742)
We know as well, the coaching industry is a bit undefined. So International Coaching Federation is at the moment the most recognized and the only recognized global accreditation institution. So definitely I would also suggest to reach out to coaches that are accredited in that because that's the awareness of a gradual mindset and habits development, as you said, that is needed rather than just fixing the problem in one workshop, which does not work. Right. And the same is for team.
team development, right? It's kind of a similar approach. And I think to what came to me when you were sharing also, I think it's very important to define of where is that moment. Because many organizations, especially when you struggle and you are in this perpetuum, challenge, challenge, busyness circle, and tactical
operational way of leading, would say managing because you're kind of in a vicious circle. That's the moment that you usually postpone it for later to make investments into changes and into mindset in the way of being. Because when we have time, now we're too busy and it's exactly what is the right time. I do it for individual or for organization because there will never be a time because you cannot go out of this vicious circle before, I mean, without making that mindset shift and obviously building different habits of being and leading.
And I think that's important to address because then it's not a nice to have skill. It's not a nice to have the absolute necessity in making that transition of any organization to lead differently, operate differently and more strategically and get out of the vicious circle. And I think on a time you mentioned, it takes time of course, to get used to that new way of leading, operating for sure. And at the same time.
don't we waste the time by not doing it. also, I think I wanted to elaborate on that because time and effort is usually okay. it's too much time and it's too much effort. So we do it when we have time. so on. But it is like, you know, yeah, it is like cutting the wood in the forest has been super busy and having time to sharpen the sword. Just exactly the same thing. that's so true. That's so true.
Dagmara Asbreuk (46:41.082)
And I feel that we could go on and go on on this topic because obviously we have a lot of passion, but I know that we need to have a kind of a time cut today. So we covered quite a lot. feel that we covered, you know, unpacked what really coaching is for the listeners so that there is a clarity about that.
We covered what are the elements, we covered where to start and those first steps that individual and organization can take and why it's so important and what's, think, the impact. So I'm sure that listeners will have lot of food for thought, as we say, a lot of things to reflect and also that we inspire them to take those actions to start and seek for the right people to be surrounded with, to help them. And that comes to my...
One of the last questions to you, Elena, how people can connect with you, how the best is to find you, because I know that you do a great, you are bringing value in that space from base in Munich as well. So how people can connect with you in the best way. Yeah. Thank you so much. I want to highlight that even though we are based in Munich, but we do work internationally, at Big Coach Academy, our last cohort is...
completely international. have people from so many different countries and many cultures, which makes again this whole process is much richer. But yeah, please, you can find our website. It's www .bcoach -academy .com. Our email address is contact at bcoach -academy .com.
And of course you can find me personally on LinkedIn, just Elena Marsh or BeCoachAcademy. So we'll be absolutely delighted to connect. And if you have any questions about, again, about coaching or about becoming a certified coach or, you know, learning coaching skills as a leader, we will be delighted to have a conversation. Cool. I will include the links that you mentioned also in the podcast.
Dagmara Asbreuk (48:52.494)
What is your last message, last sentence is that you want to finish this rich conversation with Elena from your side? Yeah. Well, I really liked, you know, the last element, which you mentioned, don't leave it until 40 long, sharpen the sword. Yeah, such important thing. Thank you very much. was honor and pleasure, Elena, to have that beautiful conversation with you. Thank you very, very much and all the best.
Thank you. Thank you, Doug Mara. That was great. Thank you. I hope you truly enjoyed the conversation here about coaching, which is one of the most effective and powerful skill and mindset that you can build in as a leader that is helping you to lead and navigate change with FAMO EES that is helping you to develop highly performing teams and grow your leaders and grow people in your organization. And this is exactly the reason why I integrate.
coaching skills and mindset development for leading change, developing highly performing teams and growing people in the Extraordinary Leadership Program. And doors are open to the new cohort of this signature program, is called Transform from a Thin and Embody Extraordinary Leadership. Check out my website for more information about this program and join in to embrace coaching mindset.
and skillset into your leadership, but also to evolve from within to a much more powerful and wise leader that make truly a bigger impact and is a positive changemaker in your organization and tribe personally. Thank you for listening. Please help us reach more leaders by subscribing to this channel and sharing with others, subscribing to the newsletter of external leadership as well. And remember.
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Dagmara Asbreuk (50:53.56)
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